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Sounds like a plan Jeff. How long you planning on running it for, and how long was your last cycle?

Your supplements are nice and cautious, you talking the hawthorne etc before starting as well, or just during?

What type of training plan you got?

The cycle will be 12weeks mate with a 4 week kickstart of dbol. I will wait 2weeks after last injection for esters to clear before starting pct.
Last cycle was amazing gains were really good and the pumps from the tbol were really good i found it gave me very hard looking muscle.
Hawthorne berry will start around two weeks before my cycle and ill start liv52 about a week before. I take fish oils daily anyway year round.

Training is gonna be a mix of heavy weight and hypertrophy based work. Volume will also be increased.
Im also looking into fst-7 training but thats just me being curious. Ill write a training plan up later.
Most compound moves im gonna do around 5-6sets of 6-10reps.

You finally decided on the kickstart then Jeff?lol.The cycle sounds good and well thought out.The addition of Nolvadex should cover you against a flareup from the Dbol.Hopefully you'll gain aswell as the last cycle mate or certainly close to it.

My AAS cycle is on hold unfortunately mate as i don't know how much more surgery i'll need.So no PH/AAS cycles on the horizon for this year.No sense in doing a AAS cycle and i have to have surgery during the cycle and cant train after etc...I'll be doing a XFA+Test Factor advanced cycle in the spring though which i'll log.Dissapointed but there you go,next year though for sure i'll be up for the Test/Masteron cycle.

Yea decided on dbol 'the breakfast of champions' ;-) i thought why waste a cycle running the same compounds again so id like to try dbol. Have you read arnolds advanced chest routine? Where he trains chest and back in the same session. What are your views on this. Do you think this would lead to overtraining?
An sorry to hear about your surgery issues darren hope you recover quickly bro.

Looking forward to seeing how this cycle works out. Enjoyed your last log.  Hopefully this'll be as enjoyable.

Thanks bro appreciate it..
If anyone has read arnold advanced chest routine could you give me your opinion on this an how to add it if i did choose to do it. I.e
Mon-chest/back
tues-legs
weds-shoulders/tris
thurs-day off
fri-chest/back
sat-off
sun-off
thats just an example..

I found this in my notebook Jeff which may help.

Arnold Schwarzenegger Superset Routine!


CHEST and BACK



Superset:

Barbell Bench Presses - 1 set - 15 reps warm-up
5 sets - 10,8,8,6,4 reps
Wide-Grip Chins (behind the head) - 5 sets - 10 reps (to back)

Superset:

Dumbell Incline Presses - 5 sets - 10,8,6,6,4 reps
Close-Grip Chins - 5 sets - 10 reps

Superset:

Dumbell Flyes - 5 sets - 10,8,6,6,4 reps
T-Bar Rows - 5 sets - 15,10,8,8,8 reps

Superset:

Parallel Upright Dips - 5 sets - 15,10,8,8,8 reps
Bent-Over Barbell Rows - 5 sets - 10 reps

Superset:

Seated Cable rows - 5 sets - 10 reps
Dumbell Pullovers - 5 sets - 15 reps

Yea this is the routine i was talking about bro. Just thinking how i would set my workout plan around it? Any ideas i was thinking...(only while on cycle to avoid over training)

Mon-chest/back
tues-legs
weds-shoulders/arms
thurs-chest/back
fri-off
sat-shoulders/arm
sun-off

or move shoulders/arms to friday and have weekend off only downside would be over working the shoulders due to the chest movements the day before. Any ideas? This routine would onlynbe used while on cycle as recovery is going to be improved.

jiffj wrote:

Yea this is the routine i was talking about bro. Just thinking how i would set my workout plan around it? Any ideas i was thinking...(only while on cycle to avoid over training)

Mon-chest/back
tues-legs
weds-shoulders/arms
thurs-chest/back
fri-off
sat-shoulders/arm
sun-off

or move shoulders/arms to friday and have weekend off only downside would be over working the shoulders due to the chest movements the day before. Any ideas? This routine would onlynbe used while on cycle as recovery is going to be improved.

That looks a mess tbh. your stressing your shoulders for four straight days in a row (assuming your doing squats on leg days.If your hell bent on training like this  (I think its too much even on gear) then who said you have to fit it all in the one week? Why not go two days on , one off or three days on and one off etc and so on from there? Better still why change anything from your last cycle if it went well? Maybe tweak what you thought might be better.

Of course you can modify it Jeff to train less days or cut down on sets and volume etc...It is one of Arnies advanced routines as you requested.If as Buddah mentioned your last routine worked so well then why change it?You can add in a couple more exercises of Arnie or a superset to maximise the anabolic potential of the cycle without going over the top.Remember that Arnie was on up to 80-100mg of Dbol at times.Chuck in the Testosterone,Primo,and Deca and you can see how he was able to do these routines 2-3 times a week and sometimes train twice a day.

Yea i can fully see your point both of you..my main concern was the overtraining/stress that was just an example. Any ways you would recommend? I want to bring up my chest as i feel its a lagging body part.
Maybe keep my routine the same as my last cycle but add in an extra chest day? Not sure..

My routine at the min is
mon-chest/bis
Tues-legs
Weds-off
Thurs-shoulders/tris
fri-back/traps

how about this...

Mon-chest/bis (heavy chest day)
Tues-legs
weds-shoulders/tris
thurs-back/traps
Fri-chest (hypertrophy day)
Sat-off
sun-off

this is just a thought so critique it till your hearts content i appreciate the feedback..

DarrenA wrote:

Of course you can modify it Jeff to train less days or cut down on sets and volume etc...It is one of Arnies advanced routines as you requested.If as Buddah mentioned your last routine worked so well then why change it?You can add in a couple more exercises of Arnie or a superset to maximise the anabolic potential of the cycle without going over the top.Remember that Arnie was on up to 80-100mg of Dbol at times.Chuck in the Testosterone,Primo,and Deca and you can see how he was able to do these routines 2-3 times a week and sometimes train twice a day.

Remember Arnold didnt train that heavy on most of this stuff, mainly pumped the crap out of the muscles and this was his pre contest training. I doubt very very much that with as much volume in his off season.

jiffj wrote:

Yea i can fully see your point both of you..my main concern was the overtraining/stress that was just an example. Any ways you would recommend? I want to bring up my chest as i feel its a lagging body part.
Maybe keep my routine the same as my last cycle but add in an extra chest day? Not sure..

My routine at the min is
mon-chest/bis
Tues-legs
Weds-off
Thurs-shoulders/tris
fri-back/traps

how about this...

Mon-chest/bis (heavy chest day)
Tues-legs
weds-shoulders/tris
thurs-back/traps
Fri-chest (hypertrophy day)
Sat-off
sun-off

this is just a thought so critique it till your hearts content i appreciate the feedback..

On the first routine for example you can play it by ear. So it could go like this if you felt recovered after Fridays workout.

mon-chest/bis
Tues-legs
Weds-off
Thurs-shoulders/tris
fri-back/traps
sat - off
sun - begin cycle again so chest and bis
mon - legs and so on.

What you need to watch when increasing frequency or volume in training is this ittises that people get. There is a big correlation between a big jump in volume or frequency while still training hard or heavy and tendon injuries such as tendonitis. Just keep that in mind.  If your chest is weak look at your exercise choice. Not everyone gains good in the chest from flat bench for eg.

Thanks for the input bro..i wouldnt say my chest is weak but compared.to the rest of my body its an area i want to improve on..iv started doing more incline moves which has made quite a dramatic improvement.

Looking forward to seeing how you fair with this cycle Jeff everything looks in place for more great results mate!

Quick update-

Today I tried a chest and back workout to see how it felt an maybe incorporate it into my workout routine for my cycle.
All I can say is what a killer!! Felt amazing. Full body pumps and such a strong session. The way I done it was heavy chest/light back. An was planning on switching it each session I.e next session light chest/heavy back.
This was my routine-

Incline barbell bench-
Warm up 2x20reps light-medium weight
4x6reps heavy weight

Wide grip pull ups-
4x10reps medium weight

Flat barbell bench-
4x6reps heavy weight

T-bar rows-
4x10reps medium weight

Incline db flyes-
4x10reps medium weight

Narrow grip pull down-
4x12reps medium weight

Chest dips-
4x10reps

One arm db row-
4x12reps medium weight

Pullovers-
4x12reps (works chest and back)

Felt like a good workout. An went suprisingly quick. My plan for my cycle was to do this routine just want your feedback on it...
Day 1- chest(heavy)/back(light)
Day 2- legs
Days 3- delts/arms
Day 4- OFF
Day 5- repeat but with light chest and heavy back

My idea was that while on cycle in the space of 7 days you work each body part twice. So for 12weeks instead of getting for example one chest workout a week which would be 12chest workouts for duration of the cycle I'd be gettin 24chest workout for the duration of the cycle. Only problem I see wrong with this routine would be over working the delts so I would have to listen to my body on this one if I chose it. So really in the space of 7days my workout would look like this.

Day 1- chest(heavy)/back(light)
Day 2- legs
Day 3- delts/arms
Day 4- OFF
Day 5- chest(light)/back(heavy)
Day 6- legs
Day 7- delts/arms

I've tried something very similar Jeff when I tried out training twice in a day - Feels good getting the double hit in the week.

first good luck with the cycle,second the most expensive part will be getting a new wardrobe,im still using laynes power/hyper split,
i do mon power chest/back/tri    wed power legs/shoulders/bi and then thur hyper chest/back/tri  and fri hyper legs/shoulders/bi.i love training chest and back together.

Thanks bro appreciate it. Worst thing about training is that I find it a b@stard finding jeans that fit there fine on the waist but quads won't fit in lol! Gotta admit mate LOVED training chest and back together the full body pumps were amazing and suprisingly exercises that id normally do on chest day felt easier yesterday. Maybe because my chest was resting while hitting a back set etc..im gonna give this a go for a while see how it goes...just waiting to start my cycle.