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Adam wrote:

Also, is it going to be a hindrance to people trying to achieve lean muscle? It could be argued that many people are too sensitive about fat gain, and this could potentially exacerbate their situation even more and make them frustrated / turn away from the sport.

I think the people in general who want to get in better shape have to much fat already, that they are in a losing mode in the first place.
Those that have progressed from that to a stage where they are in the middle, trying to balance gains with fat will probably adopt lean bulking.
Since unless they came from being skinny, nobody who loses fat will want to add again, simple psychology for them.
On the skinny side of the equation, those probably will care the least about bulking with fat as a bonus.

As for proper bodybuilders, a low fat maintanable appearance will probably pay off more in training tactics in the long run.
If you don't have to do any real cutting, you can always focus on shape and size while having an almost direct eye on the result.

I'm definately doing lean bulking after ive cut to 240lb...... once ive cut to that weight i'm never going back to mass bulking !! what is the point ive put all that mass on 274lb and i'm gonna lose 34lb when ive finished cutting so from now on slow & steady for me...... I really can't see the point of over eating getting massive everywhere gut included then got to starve & work extremely hard to shift it all doesn't make sense ok in clothes look  f****ing massive but who wants to have a  gut (no visible abs) or rounded shape i would much rather have ripped lean body & feel more confident than walking around like a gorilla & feeling shit........... so yes Adam lean bulking from now on for me........

imo the days of pilling on 30lbs to retain 12 after dieting is the same as these yo yo diets where people jump up and down a stone or more this is tremendously strenous on the heart and isnt realy a very good way for your body to adjust to changes in its phisique as in muscle v fat as it grows at a tremendous rate to drop massive ammounts of weight ,a steady weight increase of reasonable proportions which requires only maintainence and not severe dieting is more in line with good general health and retainable gains.on cycle id put on 10lbs and keep 7,id naturally drop another lb or two after pct as i reintroduce more cardio but thats bf and not the hard gained muscle,so from 100kg at end of cycle to 99 end of pct to 97 after a couple of weeks post pct.this is a leaner more retainable muscle gain but also leaves me with room for more growth be it on cycle or natural.as we work so hard to put on muscle and train like mad to retain it while dieting ,this is v confusing for the body,keep it simple,eat a bit better,keep training hard,and gain a bit less but quality.

You cant put on muscle without eating surplus calories as we all know. No one ever said those surplus calories need to come from junk though. An extra portion of meat and veg with some high calorie healthy fats like almond butter is potentially all you would need to have surplus calories in your diet.

Interesting views there gentleman.

I should mention that when I first took the job in BA and was working in the Liverpool store, it was common knowledge for us to advise customers to go for the highest calorie weight gainer as this would ensure results and like you alluded to Al, a surplus in calories. People were absolutely adamant they needed a ton of calories, has super-fast metabolisms and were 'special' individuals who simply couldn't add weight.

Slowly, somewhere along the line, the mentality started to change. People started to come in and say, "I want to add muscle, but I don't want to get TOO massive (lol)... I don't want to get fat"

You could argue that these are two different categories of people all together, and I think both still exist, but there's been a shift in years towards the latter.

yeah I think things certianly have changed, I think because the attraction of being lean over just being huge is catching up and people want both without going through a fat phase

Adam wrote:

"I want to add muscle, but I don't want to get TOO massive (lol)... I don't want to get fat"

Too many Mens Health readers about these days. Guys doing the latest 'single arm reverse curl will standing on a swiss ball' type blokes. They need to take a look at these websites. (www.70sbig.com) or (www.liftbigeatbig.com) Ive been following these guys for month or two now, some real good stuff between them.

I add muscle fairly easily but can put on loads of fat aswell if don't be careful. I eat a suplus of a few hundred calories when i want to add more muscle and strength and nothing more. Doubling of ones calories is ridiculous for my bodytype as i just end up looking like a sumo. Some extreme ectomorphs may require massive calorie diets though. I took NLARGE a few years back which is a high calorie weightgainer. The only thing i gained on it was a spare tyre and an extra chin, definately lived up to it's name "NLARGE!", never again.

DarrenA wrote:

I add muscle fairly easily but can put on loads of fat aswell if don't be careful. I eat a suplus of a few hundred calories when i want to add more muscle and strength and nothing more. Doubling of ones calories is ridiculous for my bodytype as i just end up looking like a sumo. Some extreme ectomorphs may require massive calorie diets though. I took NLARGE a few years back which is a high calorie weightgainer. The only thing i gained on it was a spare tyre and an extra chin, definately lived up to it's name "NLARGE!", never again.

HAHA, crack me up mate with your metaphors.

I've said it before and I'll say it again in this scenario, I believe those of us who balloon up fast in the face and waist, what we need to do is look at a reduced meal frequency with more calorie dense meals sandwiched in there. I can bulk comfortably off 3 meals per day as opposed to the recommended 5-6, and I actually find it a lot more fun and manageable this way too. &, dare I say, there may be research suggesting I'm doing it the more effective way for elevating protein synthesis

I'm just getting the benefit of eating big, juicy meals full of flavour, and not getting fat in the process like your typical bulkers. 3-4 meals, FTW.

This is an interesting one, but having been involved in the sport for 30 years I can assure you this is nothing new. Views on this have been mixed the whole time Ive been training and the same views are still around today.

There are certain body types that dont ever need a huge calorie surplus to gain muscle mass. Typically they are long muscled guys and they acquire muscle tissue quite easily.

However, there are also some body types that will never accumulate a lot of muscle on a low calorie excess.

Studies performed in Sweden showed that eating excess calories over a period as short as 2 weeks increased muscle mass without any form of exercise - common sense I suppose but somebody needed to prove it happened - and also increased body fat.

This means that high calorie surpluses for certain individuals will be a further anabolic stimulus. Combined with cycles of determined strength increases to stimulate further anabolic stimulus this is often the only approach to gain significant muscle tissue.

Paul, and myself, both working in Warrington BodyActive are both naturally very slim and we've both used what a lot may think of very high calorie diets to significantly change the muscle mass we hold. We've both at one time or another carried a little more fat than we wanted to get that extra muscle. However, the other side of this is that as we struggle to gain mass, we both find it easy to lose the extra fat too.

This is one of those cases where a 'One size fits all' really isnt appropriate.

By the way Adam, just to set the record straight, its never been our policy to encourage people to take massive calorie weight gains unless they want to maximise muscle gains and they are naturally very thin framed.

Frequently, trends for buying are set by role models. In gyms the biggest guys are on gear. These guys use (and need) very high calorie diets and often use massive weight gainers to gain maximum overall mass from their cycles. Unfortunately, others in the gym follow the same example.

mikeadmin wrote:

This is an interesting one, but having been involved in the sport for 30 years I can assure you this is nothing new. Views on this have been mixed the whole time Ive been training and the same views are still around today.

There are certain body types that dont ever need a huge calorie surplus to gain muscle mass. Typically they are long muscled guys and they acquire muscle tissue quite easily.

However, there are also some body types that will never accumulate a lot of muscle on a low calorie excess.

Studies performed in Sweden showed that eating excess calories over a period as short as 2 weeks increased muscle mass without any form of exercise - common sense I suppose but somebody needed to prove it happened - and also increased body fat.

This means that high calorie surpluses for certain individuals will be a further anabolic stimulus. Combined with cycles of determined strength increases to stimulate further anabolic stimulus this is often the only approach to gain significant muscle tissue.

Paul, and myself, both working in Warrington BodyActive are both naturally very slim and we've both used what a lot may think of very high calorie diets to significantly change the muscle mass we hold. We've both at one time or another carried a little more fat than we wanted to get that extra muscle. However, the other side of this is that as we struggle to gain mass, we both find it easy to lose the extra fat too.

This is one of those cases where a 'One size fits all' really isnt appropriate.

By the way Adam, just to set the record straight, its never been our policy to encourage people to take massive calorie weight gains unless they want to maximise muscle gains and they are naturally very thin framed.

Frequently, trends for buying are set by role models. In gyms the biggest guys are on gear. These guys use (and need) very high calorie diets and often use massive weight gainers to gain maximum overall mass from their cycles. Unfortunately, others in the gym follow the same example.

Just to elaborate on what I really meant: most people were completely adamant they could not gain results often on lower calorie gainers we'd previously suggested. In fact, Reflex's Instant Mass use to be the main product we'd recommend to put people in a surplus, but many individuals would frequently say "it's not enough" or return and say they needed more.

Obviously, we'd tailor products to their needs, but we did have a ton of young teenagers / adults coming in at the time just starting out, and it was great encouragement for them to get that initial weight gain. I'm very proud of the work we accomplished in Liverpool as a team. I think back now, and we certainly changed many guys' lives and ambitions. It was amazing to personally witness amazing transformations over the months in the stores. Definitely my fondest memories of working there.

THE ANIMAL wrote:

I'm definately doing lean bulking after ive cut to 240lb...... once ive cut to that weight i'm never going back to mass bulking !! what is the point ive put all that mass on 274lb and i'm gonna lose 34lb when ive finished cutting so from now on slow & steady for me...... I really can't see the point of over eating getting massive everywhere gut included then got to starve & work extremely hard to shift it all doesn't make sense ok in clothes look  f****ing massive but who wants to have a  gut (no visible abs) or rounded shape i would much rather have ripped lean body & feel more confident than walking around like a gorilla & feeling shit........... so yes Adam lean bulking from now on for me........

I agree with all of this 100%!  Lean bulks for me from now on.